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ሙሉእ ስሞም ዝተወለድሉ ኣመተ ምህረት ልተወልውደሉ ቦታ እስቲ ይንገሩኒ?
May I know your full name,place of birth and date of birth, please?
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ዋይ ኣመተ ምሕረቱ ኣይፈርጦይ እየ ።
Oh, I don't remember the year.
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እወ ሙሉእ ስሞም
Your full name?
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ናኣ ኣነ ምሉእ ስም?
My full name?
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ስሞም?
Your name?
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ግደይ የይህሽ ይህይይሽ እምባየ ።
Gidey Yiheysh Embaye
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እምባየ ገብረእዝጊ ይበሃል።
and Embaye G/Egzi
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ኣ ዝተወለድሉ ቦታ?
...where is your place of birth?
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ጽገሪዳ ።
" Tsigereda"
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ጽገሪዳ ።
Tsigereda!
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ኣብ ወረዳ ታይ እዩ?
What District?
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ወረዳ ክልተውላዕሎ።
...KILTE AWLALO District.
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ክልተውላዕሎ።
KILTE AWLALO?
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እወ።
Yes.
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ጣቢያ?
Of what sub-district?
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ጽገሪዳ ባዕሉ።
Tsigereda, it self.
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ቁሽት ዓዲ መላዕ።
...and its qushet is called "Adi Mela"
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ዝተወለዱሉ ዓ.ም ኣይፈልጥዎይ?
You don't remember when you were born?
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ዘተወለድኩ ብ ዕድመይ 20ይ 47/ 48 ገይረ
I'm 47... 48 years old.
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ናየን ለ ስመን ዕድመዓን ልተወልውዳሉ ቦታ?
...and yours, may I know your name,age and place of birth?
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ሓዝጊ ይበሃል ልተወለድኩሉ እማ ።
I was born in a place called "Hazgi".
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እሺ ስመን ከ ?
Well, what about your name?
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ቅዱሳን የዕብዮ።
My name is Kidusan Yeibyo.
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ቅዱሳን የዕብዮ።
Kidusan Yeibyo
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እ ዝተወለዳሉ ቦታ ?
Where was your place of birth?
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ኣይፈልጦይ።
I don't know it.
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ቦታ ከ?
What about the place?
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ሓዝጊ ልተወለድኩሉ እማ።
I was born in a place called "Hazgi".
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ኣበይ ወረዳ?
Where is its district?
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ኣበይተ ይበሓል እንድኢ።
I don't know how to explain it.
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ወረድኡ ሃገረ ሰላም።
It's Hagere Selam district.
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ጣብያ ከ ?
Of what sub-district?
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ጣብያ ቀልቀል ቁሸት ሕዝጊ ይባሃል።
...of Kelkel sub-district and Hizgi qushet.
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ዝተወለዳሉ ቦታ ሃድጊ ይበሃል ።
Your place of birth was called Hadgi,yes?
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ሃዝጊ።
No, it's Hazgi.
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ሃዝጊ?
Hazgi?
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Yes.
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ጣብያ ?
Its district?
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ጣብያ ቀልቀል።
"Kelkel" district
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ቀልቀለ?
Kelkel!
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ወረዳ ሓገረ ሰላም ።
Hagere Selam district
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ቅድሚ ከ ክንደይ ይገብራ ይኮና?
How old are you right now?
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እንድኢ ኣይፈልጦይ ኣነስ።
I don't remember it.
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እሺ።ስርሖም እስቲ ይንገሩኒ ስርሖም
Well... what is your occupation?
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ንመን ኣነ?
For whom, me?
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Yes.
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ስርሐይ እማ. . . .
My occupation is...
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ማሕረስ እናማላእኩ እዚ ሕንፃ ምሕናፅ ።
farming a farm and building this church as the craftsman in parallel.
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ይሓርሱ ገባር ለ እዮም ማለት እዩ?
So you're also a farmer, yes?
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ገባር እየ እወ።
Yes,i am.
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ንሰን ከ ?
What about her?
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ታይ ኣነ እማ ?
Me, what could I mention?
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ስራሕ?
Your job?
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ናይ ገዛናየ እማ እንታይ እኒሆ ።
Nothing but house wife.
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እሺ።
Well...
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ከመይ ሐዚ ንዚ ስራሕ ንክሰርሑ ትምህርቲ ወሲዶም ድዮም ነይሮም መጀመርያ. . .
How do you know how to do this work; did you have any training first?
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ዝስራሕ ንምስራሕ, . .
to go to work...
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እዚ ህንፃ ምቅርፅ?
just to carve a church...
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ኣይ አነ ና ትምህርቲ ነገር ዝተማሃርኩሉ ሰብ የብለይን።
Me? I haven't got any training from anyone else.
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ግን ብናይ ባኣለይ ቅብእቲ ወላዲትና ነይረን ወ/ሮ ተበርህ አሰፋ ዝባሃላ እማ. . .
but my own nun, called Mrs Teberh Asefa...
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ብራኢ እየን ኣምፂናና እንዳ ጋብር ኣፈጀታ. . .
...saw a dream and brought us here, Endagabr Afejeta.
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ኣፈጀታ ይባሃል።
It's called Afejeta.
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ኣብኡ ይቅመጣ ነይረን ግን ብህልሚ ሓሊመን . . .
She was living there but dreamt of...
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ከምዚ ዝበለ ዝሕነፅ አሎ ንኣናይወደይ ኢልና መፂኢን. . .
...and told me that there is a church to be crafted and she needs me for that operation.
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መፅኢና ግን ኣቲ ስራሕ እናተበረሐና እዩ ዝከደ ብናባእልትና እምበይ. . .
Coming here, we experienced the work by ourselves.
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ኣምበር ቅድሚኡ ሰሪሖም አይፈሉጡይ?
But you hadn't ever done such a work before?
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መጀምርታና እዚኣ እያ ናይዳገባር መንደቅ ገለመለ ይሰርሕ ነይረ ።
This was our first, but I used to build masonry houses.
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ናብዚኣ ድዮም መጀመርያ ኣምፂኢኖኦም ማለት ድዩ ?
Did she bring you here originally?
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እእ።
Yes.
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መን ይባሃላ?
What's her name?
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ኢታይ ትበርህ አሰፋ ይባሃላ ።
Her name is Etay Teberh Asefa.
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መነኩሲ ድየን ነይረን ?
Is she a monk/nun?
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እወ መነኩሲ ነይረን።
Yes, she is a monk / nun.
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ማኣዘ ማለት እዩ ዞ ኣብዚ እኒሆ?
When did this happen?
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ኣይ ሕዚማ ዳርጋ ናብ 20 ይገብር እዩ ።
It's almost 20 years ago.
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ካብ ንጅምሮ ማለት እዩ።
...that was when we started it.
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ክንደይ ዓመት እባ ሂዘኖም መፂኢን?
How long ago did she bring you here.
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እን ኢታይ ኣበራ ኢተይ መን ድየን ?
Hmmm! Etay Abera. No, who was Etay?
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ኢተይ ትብርሕ አሰፋ ዶ?
Do you mean Etay Teberh Asefa?
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ኢታይ ትብርሕ አሰፋ።
Yes,Etay Teberh Asefa.
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ዋይ 20ዓመት ንገብር ዓመትና ።
It will be 20 years.
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ቅድሚ 20ዓመት ድዮ ኣርእየንኦም?
Did she show you the place 20 years agp?
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እ።
Yes.
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ካብ ብድሕሪኡ ግን ድሕሪኡ መፂእና ምስራሕ. . .
Then after, we came ourselves.
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ቅድሚ 20ዓመት ድዮም ሰሪሖሞ ማለት ድዩ ዚ አብዚ ኣኒሆ?
So you did all this 20 years ago?
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እዚ ዶ ?
This one?
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Yes.
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ዋይ ደጊም ቅድሚ 20 ዝብለካ ዘለኩ 18 ከባቢ ይከውን ካብ እንጅምሮ ኣቲ ስራሑ ማለት እዩ
Oh! It's around 18 years ago that we started the job.
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18 ዓመት ነይሩ ተን ተብርሕ ኣሰፋ ኣሪንኦም ማለት እዩ ?
So Etay Tiberih Assefa showed you more than 18 years ago?
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እሕ።
yes
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ዘን ኢታይ ተብራህ ኣሰፋ ትሰርሁ ተለዉ ናብዚኣ ድየን ኣምፂኦን ናብ ካሊእ?
When you worked with weizero Etay Tiberih Assefa, did she bring you here or somewhere else?
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ላብዚኣ።
No, she brought us here.
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ላብዚኣ?
Here
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ላብዚኣ።
Here
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ዘን መነኩሴ ከ እኒየዋ ድየን እሽካብ ሕዚ?
Is nun Etay Tiberih Assefa alive?
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የለዋይ ከይደን እየን ።
She passed away.
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ሞይተን እየን ?
She passed away?
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ክንደይ ገይረን . . . ካብ ልሞታ?
When did she die?
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3 ዓመተን ።
Three years ago.
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3 ዓመተን ።
Three years ago.
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እሺ።
Ok
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ቤተሰብ ክንደይ ደቂ እኒየዎም?
How many children do you have?
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መን ኣነ?
Me?
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እ።
Yes
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8ተ እኒየውኒ ።
Eight.
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8ተ።
Eight?
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ክንደይ ኣጓላት ክንደይ ኣወዳት?
How many boys and how many girls?
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4 ኣወዳት እና 4 አጓላት ።
I have 4 sons and 4 daughters.
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ስራሕ እኒየዎም ዶ ዞምደቆም?
Do they have jobs?
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ስራሕ እባ ሃደ እዚ እዩ ዝሓለቓ እዚ።
The eldest is a diacon here
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ምናኣሱ እኒያ ባኣልቲ ሓዳር።
His younger sister is a married woman
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ቶም ካሊኣት ከ ተምሃሮ?
What about the others?
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ሃደ 9ይ አለኒ።
One is in ninth grade.
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ሃደ 7ይ ኣሎ።
The other one is in seventh grade
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ካልኦቶም ደቆ 4ይ፣5ይ እዮም።
and the rest are in fifth and fourth grades.
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ኩሎም ብሃደ ድዮም ዝነብሩ ምስኦም ?
Do all live with you?
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ብሃደ ኢና ።
Of course
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ኣብዚ ትማሊ ዝነበርናሉ ቦታ ማለት እዩ።
Do you live at the place we visited yesterday?
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እወ።
Yes
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እዚ እዚኣ ድያ ናይ መጀመርታ ዝቀረፅዎ ዘሰርሕዎ ቤተክርስቲያን።
Is this the first rock-hewn church you carved?
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እወ።
Yes!
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እስቲ ከዚ ኣብ መጀመርያ ሰሪሖም 2ይ ትሰርሁ ተለው ፣3ይ ትሰርሑ ተለውስ ፣4ይ ትሰርሑ እንተለው እንታይ እንማሉኡ እናዳበሉ ከይዶም?
When you crafted the 2nd, the 3rd and the 4th, have you improved? If so what improvements did you make?
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ላመሓየሹ ወይለ ናተቀየሩ ከይዶም ብየመና ምስራሕ ፅቡቅ ነገር ላብ ምስራሕ?
Did you improve through experience?
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ንሱማ እወ ካብ መጀመርያካ ዶ ከኮን መጀምርያ ነገር. . .
Definitely!
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እዚ ናልምምድ እዩ ነይሩ ።
You know my first undertaking served as practice.
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ብድሕሪኡ ደማ ናይ ንፍልጠት እናከደ እንቀፀለ ስለልከድ ብድሕሪኡ ደማ እናተበርሐልካ ስለዝከድ . . .
When I carved the others, the knowledge and the comments
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ኩሉ እናተበርሐና አናከደ ኣብ ቆራር ትሪኦ አለካ ቀጣን አንዲ እኒሃ ሽድሽተ ኣንጎሎ . . .
I received helped me do better. As you can see, Kerar Megdelawit Maryam is carved with thin pillars, having six corners
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ቅርፃ ቅርፂ ምቅራፅ. . .
Making shapes
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ኩሉ ዝባኑ ላእላይኡ ከም ዝከስታይ ኣርማ ዝክስታይ ምስራሕ. . .
and decorating the roof
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ዋና ገይርናዮ ስራሕና።
is mainly our work on it,
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ናይ ቀስተ ደመኒኡይ ናይዚ እንዮይ ድይ ከም ኮቦረታ ዶ እኒዮይ ባእሉ ከፍ ከፍ ዝብል . . .
with a rainbow like [arch] on top, with 4 by 4 blanket like shapes, it is now better than my first endeavour.
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ቅርፂ እሱ ቀሪፅናዮ እኒየና ።
We made that shape.
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እሕ።
Ok
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ግን እናብለፅና ከይድና ካብዚ . . .
But we made some improvements.
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ዚ ትትርእይዎ ንበይኑ እዩ ።
This one is different from the one I made.
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ዛ ና ቆራር ዝነበረት ታይ እያ ዝነበረት ስማ ?
What was the church in Korar?
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ዳ መግደላይት ።
Enda Megdelawit
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ዛ 4ተ ብ 4ተ ድያ ማዓዝን ዘለዋ ኮቦርታ ትመስል ኣብ ምንታይ ቤተክርስትያን ድያ ዝነበርት?
Where was the four by four sized shape which looks like a blanket?
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ኣበይ ቤተክርስቲያን?
What church was that?
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ዳ መግደላይት ።
Enda Megdelawit
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ከመይ ዛ ቀስተ ደመና ምስራሕስ ከመይ ተማሂሮም ?
How did you master carve a rainbow shaped [arch]?
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ባእለይ ኣብ ኦም ጀሚረዮ።
I started it on wood first as my ancestors did.
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ኣብ ኦም ማለት ?
What do you mean in wood?
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ኦም ዞ ኣብዚ እኒ ዮ ከርእየካ እሞ . . .
I will show you.
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ብምንታይ ተኮይኑስ ኦም ብመጀምርታ ይቀርፁ እዩም ነይሮም ወላዲና ቀራፂ እዩም ነይሮም ናይ ቤትክርስትያን ክሰርሁ. . .
My father was a craftsman and he used to carve wood first.
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ከዚ ግን ትልሰርሕዎ ኣይነይ ርኢዮ እየ ።
Since I saw my father’s craft
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ንሱም ግን ብዙሕሻዕ. . .
but, mainly. . .
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መን ይበሃሉ ነይሮም?
What was his name?
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ቀሺ እምባየ ።
Yeshi Embaye.
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ኣቦኦም ማለት እዩ ።
Your father?
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እ።
Yes
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እሱም ይቀርፁ ነይሮም እዩም።
Did he craft as you do now?
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ይቀርፁ ነይሮም ።
Absolutely!
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ከምዚ ከም ናዮም . . .
Did he used to carve like you do?
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ናየ ብኮክሒ እዩ ናዮም ብመንደቅ እዩ ።
Mine is rock-hewn, yet his is in building.
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ብመንደቅ።
Building?
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እ።
Yes
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እዚ ግን ናዮም እቲ ቀስተ ደመና ግን. . .
But we practiced the rainbow
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ኣብ ኦም ስለዝለመድናዮ. . .
shape on wood
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ንት ኮክሒ እውን ከምኦም ፈልፊልና. . .
then we copied it on the rock.
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ሰሪሕናዮ።
We did it.
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ኣብ ኦም ማለት ከምዚ ዓብይ ኦም . . .
When you say wood, was it a large piece of wood?
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እኒኤካ እንዶ ክትርእዮ አቲ ቀስተ ደመና ክትርእዮ ኢካ ከምኡ
You will see it later when you go there.
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ሐዚ ብልረእካዮ ።
After you have seen it
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እወ።
Yes
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ብከምኡ ንቀርፆ ።
you will be able to know how we make it.
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ሐዚስ ኣብ ጆወርግስ ዘሎ ዓምዲ ብጣዕሚ . . .
The pillars on St.George church
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ብጣዕሚ ዓብይ እዩ ።
are very big and. . .
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አብዚ ማርያም መግደላዊትን አባ ገሪማ ክንከድ እንተለና ለ ዘን ኣምዲ . . .
When we see the pillars in St. George, they are very big but the pillars in Mariam Megdelawit and Aba Gerima
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ንእስ ንእስ ዝበለ እዩ ቅጥን ቅጥን ዝበላ እየን ።
are small and thin,
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እሱ ከ ?
What about it?
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ሕዚ ከመይ እዩ ?
How is this?
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ሕዚ ንሱማ እንዳ ጀወርጊስ ገና እዩ አእርዩ አይተፈፀመይ።
Enda Giyorgis (St. George) church is not finished yet.
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እሕ?
Okay
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ገና እዩ ክስራሕ ካልዕ ክወፆ እዩ ስርሑ ።
I will carve many shapes
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እወ።
Yes
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እዚ ዳ እዚ ልተፈፀመ ግን . . . ቅርፃቅርፂ ስለ ዝርአኩምዎ . . .
But you saw the finished shape.
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Okay
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እምበይ እናላቀጠነ እዩ ክከይድ እቲ ናይ እንዳ ጀወርጊስ ረጒድ እንሆ እማ . . .
The thicker pillar will become thinner
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ገና ላእላይ ቁመቱ ለ ክውስክ እዩ ።
and its highest point will also increase
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ክስአል ለ እዩ ።
and will be painted.
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ናይ ከዚ 3 ሜትሮን 50 ዶ ኮነይ እኒሆ. . .
And the thicker pillars are now almost 3 meters and 50 centimeters tall.
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ናጋ ግን እንታይ ይከውን ሎ 4 ሜትሮይ የወይ ናብ 5 ክአቱ እዩ እዚ ቅርፂ ግን ክቀርፆ እዩ።
But later, I thought at the end they will be 4 or 5 meters tall. It will be shaped.
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ናይ ጊዮርጊስ?
St. George church?
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ጆርጊስ ቲ ኣእምዲ ለ ክቀጥን እዩ።
In St. George church
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እዩ እና ከምቲ አንዳ መግደላዊት ለ ናብዚ ናብዚ ሓንቲ ኣምዲስ ናብ ሽድሽተ ኣረንጓ . . .
All these pillars at the end will be thinner as in Enda Mariam Megdelawit.
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ናብ አርባእተ ማእዘን ቀስተ ደመና ትከውን እያ።
As you can see, one pillar could have four corners with a rainbow shape in each. It is now on trial.
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ገና አብ ተሞክሮ አዩ እኒሆ።
It is on trial.
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እሺ።
Ok
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ኣዞም ኣርባቲኦም ዝሰርሕዎም ከዚ ስርሖም ተመሳሰልቲ ድዮም ወይስ ተፈላለዩ እዩ?
Are the 4 churches you have carved identical?
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ንሱ ብእንባ ይፈላለዩ ።
No. They all differ due to the space.
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ከመይ ብእምባ ?
What did you mean by space?
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ታይ እንሆ ምፍልላዮም እማ ናይ ፅበት ቦታ ተግኒካ. . .
The difference is,if you find a wide space
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ማለት ተሕፅሮ ተፅብቦ እዩ ።
you can fashion it as you want.
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ናይ ቦታ እንባ ገፍሒ ከምዚ ና እንዳ መግደላዊት ተግኒካ . . .
Mariam Megdelawit church has a wide space,
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ትሰርሐሉ አአሪካ ለ ተፅብቆ ።
so it is suitable to make any shapes you like, but if the space is very small, you are obliged to do every thing economically, and with many shapes.
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ምስቲ እቲ ግን እንድሕር ሕፅረት ተልዩ ቅርፃ ቅርፂ ክተውፀአሉ . . .
But if there is space limitation,
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የብለካ እዩ ይፀበካ ኣዩ ።
it's hard to work on it.
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ዞም ዝሰርህዎም 4ኦም ከ ዘመሳስሎም ነገር እኒየዎም ዶ ?
Is there anything which makes the four churches similar.
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ነና ባእሎም ኣዮም።
No, they are not. They are all different.
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ነናይ ባእሎም ኣዮም።
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ከመይ ታይ ታይ ኣፈላላይ እኒየዎም ማለት እዩ 4 ኦም?
What is the difference among the four churches?
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እንታይ እንታይ ኣፈላላይ እማ . . .
Their difference is
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እዚ ሐደ ወገን ከም ዓምዲ ከም ስርየቶም ኦም ዝወደቀ እኒየዎም እዩ።
the wooden step on this side has collapsed.
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መሊሱ ለ ከም ክስታይ እኒዮ ዝተበለ እዩ ኣቀራርፅኡ ማለት እዩ ።
Also, there are different shapes .
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ከመይ ንጎኒ እኒየዎ።
How ? They have side spaces.
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ከም ኦም ዝወደቀ እኒየዎ እዩ።
There are shapes like...
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ኣፍቲ ናይ ቀስተ ደመና ገይርካ . . .
like with a rainbow looking
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ዝ ከም ማርትሬዛ ከም ዝቅረፅ . . .
like a tiled shape.
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ንከምኡ እዩ ተቀሪፁ እኒዮ ና መግደላዊት።
Megdelawit Mariam has, excluding the rainbow [arch], a tiled shape, but in St. George’s church,it is as though all the sides are falling.
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እዚኣ ግን ኣይተረደኣትኒን ከመይ?
Ok but i didn't understand the last one?
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እዚኣ ማ ከምዚ ሰርዊት ናይ እንዳ ገባር እንደኒኦይ ዝወድቅ ዘሎ. . .
This one looks as though it was falling down
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ኣብዚ መሪቱ ማለት ድዩ ?
On the ground?
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ት ላእላይ እባ . . .
No, on the ceiling.
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ከምዚ ኢሉ ብዚ ብዚ ብክልተ ገፅ ተሸርሽሩ እማ. . .
It was eroded on two sides;
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ከምዚ ኢሉ ልወደቀ እኒይዎ ትርእዮ ዶ።
you will see it.
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ንላእሊ ?
On the ceiling?
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Yes
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ዛ ና መግደላዊት ታይ እያ ዝበልዋ?
What was the thing you told me about the Megdelawit church?
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ናይ እንዳ መግደላዊት ከምዚ ማርትሪዛ ናይ ክስታይ ዝከውን ዘሎ?
In the Megdelawit church,
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ንሱ ናይ ባኣላ ቅርፂ ብለይቲ ቀስተ ደመና ካሊእ ቅርፂ እኒየዎ ማለት እዩ።
without the rainbow,it has another shape
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እሕ
Okay
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ናይ ዙ ዚ ለ. . .
and this also...
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ንንባእሉ ወይ ኮይኑ መጀመርታ ልተፈላለየ ማለት እዩ ።
We made it separate and different because it is our first
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ኣፍቲ ግን ኣብዚ ና መግደላዊት. . .
But there...
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ምዕሊኽናዮ።
we decorated it
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ኩሉ ሓደ ኣይነት እዩ ።
was it all the same.
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ቲ ቀስተ ደመና እናሓለወ ተሎ. . .
when the rainbow is as it is
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ቲ ከም ማርትሬዛ . . .
It is just like MARTREZA
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ንናባእሉ ቀይሕ እሎ ፀሊም እሎ. . .
Separately, there is red, black...
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ገለ እሎ ንሱ ፃእዳ እምባ ስለ ዝኮነ እምበይ. . .
...and others.
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ከም ቅርፁ ት ኣቀራርፁኡ ።
different shapes.
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እዚ 4ማኣዝን ከዚ ዝብለዎ ከማቲኒላ ዝተቀርፀ ኣብዚ. . .
Where are the four sides in the tile-like shape?
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ኣብዝባን ? እእ
On the above? Yes.
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እቲ ከምዚ ኢሉ ቀስተ ደምበና ዘይሩ እናሓለወ ተሎ እማ
When the rainbow goes round...
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እዚኣ ዶ ትስሕሳሕ. . .
We make it smooth.
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Okay
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ሾጦጦ ዶ ትገብራ ብሓጭን. . .
It has a square
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ዳሓር እማ ኣብዚኣ እናቀረፅካ እናቀርፅካ. . .
-like shape on top of the ceiling.
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ኣብ ማርያም መገደላዊት ከዚ ኣብኡ ኩሉ ክግበረሉ ድዩ ወይስ ተወዲኡ እዩ?
So have you finished doing it on the Maryam Magdalawit church, or . . .
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ክግበሮ ኣባ እኒሂዎ።
We have not finished yet.
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ክግበሮ እዩ?
You will add?
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Yes
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ሳልሰይቲ ከ?
What about the third?
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ሳልሰይቲ እዛ እንዳባ ገሪማ?
It is Enda Aba Gerima
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Yes
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ንሳ ለለ ገና ክትቅረፅ ኣዐርያ እቲ. . .
which is under way.
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ተምደመድ እያ እንተስ ንዓመታ እንተስ ሎምዘበን ተባሂላ ነይራ።
We had a plan to be finished this year,
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ግን ንሳ ዝእርየ እኒሆ ዝጎደላ መጀመርቲኡ ከምዚ ልምምድ ነይራ ሲኢ. . .
but it has many things which need to be amended.
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ከዚ እናመልክናዮ ዝለዝከድና እቲ ኣሰራርሕሑ. . .
We got used to the work.
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በቃ አለዎ ዝስተካከለ።
Something has to be modified.
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እንታይ ክሰርሕ እየ ኢሎም ይሓስቡ እንዳ ኣባ ገሪማ ?
What do you think to do at Aba Gerima?
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እንዳ ኣባ ገሪማ ኣግፍሕ ኣቢለ ኣፀቢቀ . . .
At Enda Aba Gerima, I will widen it.
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ቆንጆ ዝኮነ ስእልታት ኣቅሚጥካ . . .
And fill it with reliefs.
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ቅርፂ መስቀላት ወይስ . . .
Reliefs of crosses or . . ?
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Yes
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መሳቅልቲ?
crosses
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መስቀል በብናይ ባእሉ ልቅመጥ ኣለዎ ።
We make them in each places.
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ኣብዚ ላእሊ ወይስ እብዚ ኣምዱ ?
Is it on the top or on the pillar?
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ኣብ ላእሊ ኡ ለ ኣብ ዓምዱ ለ ኣብ ዓምዱ መስቀል ትገብረሉ እሞ . . .
On the top and bottom of the pillars and other smaller crosses and
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ኣብ ላኣሊ ግን መሊስካ ነናይ ባኣሉ አለዎ።
on the ceiling, but it has its own
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መስቀለ ትገብሮ . . .
crosses and
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መሊስካ ንናይ ኮኮብ ዓይነት ትሰርሀሉ ።
stars at the bottom of each pillar.
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እሕ
Okay
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ከምዚ ናይ ኩሉ ናይ ባኣሉ ክገብሮ እዩ ።
We do it in each place.
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እዚ ኣባ ገሪማስ ኣብዚ ሑፃ እቲ ዘተበለ ወፂኡ እኒዮ . . .
At Enda Aba Gerima, all the broken (4-5 meters) rocks [slag] have been removed.
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ok
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ብምንታይ ክድይቡ እዮም ሐዚ ላእሊ ክቀርፁ ከለው ማለት እዩ?
How are you going to climb it?
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ብጎኒ ብእግሩ ዶ ይጅምር . . .
I start with the side at the bottom part.
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ትሑፃ ዶ ይመልእ . . .
The falling sand will raise up the floor level.
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ከም ክስታይ ሓፍ የብለካ ባዕሉ ።
Then it will lift you up.
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ሐዚ ኣባ ገሪማ ግን እዘን ታይ ስሙ ቀጢነን እየን እኒየዋ . . .
But at the Aba Gerima church the...are thin,
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ተን ኣእምደን።
the pillars.
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ሐዚ ከመይ ገይረን ንላእሊ ይድይቡ ?
So how are you going to climb?
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ክጥቀመሉ እማ. . .
To use it
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ፀግኢ እኒዮ ከግፍሕ ዶ ኮንኩይ . . .
I will widen the attic
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እሕ . . .
Ehhe
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ንሱ ዶ ትሓመድ ይመልእ ባዕሉ. . .
It will be filled with the sand
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ደሓር ማእረ ት ቁመት ይኮን።
then it will be equal to its height.
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ማ ምንታይ ይሕዝ ግን ንባኣለይ ደው ተብለኒ ሜትሮ ታሓታይ ግን እንታይ ይገብሮ ኣለኩ . . .
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ሞሊኢ ናይ 2 ሜትሮ ዝከውን ወይድማ 3ሜትሮ ሐመድ ዶ ይመልእ. . .
By filling with sand up to 3 meters then
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ንሱ ሓፍ ኣቢልና ታ ና ባዕለይ መስርሔተይ ኣንቃኣሪረ ትሰርሐላ
I can step on it to reach the ceiling.
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ብእኡ እናሰራሕኩ ብልፈፀምኩ . . .
After I have finished the job,
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ሓመድ ይወፅእ. . .
I will take the sand away again,
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እንዲያም መሊስካ ለ ብታሓታይ ጋሓጢጥካ ይኣቱ ።
and spread it over the ground.
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እሕ. . .
Okay
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ሐዚ ናይ ላኣሊ ማኣዝ እዮም ዝወድእዎ መጀመርታ ድዮም ዝውድእዎ ወይስ መጨረሻ።
A: When did you finish the ceiling? Was it at the beginning or at the end?
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መጀመርያ እባ ሑፃ ከይወፀ።
At the very beginning.
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እሕ. . . እሺ እ. . .
Okay
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ቤተክርስትያን ሐመይ ምቅራፅ ዶ ይሕይሽ ህንፃ ምስራሕ ምውቃር ይሕይሽ ወይስ. . .
Which is better, carving the rock or
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እሲ ኣይኒኡ ይበለፅ እሎም ይሓስቡ ወይስ ብእምኒ ጌርካ ምስራሕ?
building with stones?
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ምክንያቱ ከ ?
Why?
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ዋይ ሕንፃ አይግነይን ።
Building is better.
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ሕንፃ ማ ታይ ድዮ መሲሎካ ል ሃደ መጀመርታ ነገር. . .
First of all ...
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ብስሩ ክንድ እቲ ህንፃ እምባ ዝከውን አይግነይን።
because whenever and wherever you like you can do it.
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ኣብ ኣሰራርሑ ንምንታይ ይጠቅም ኣንተኮይኑ. . .
It mainly requires..
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ቲ ልእምኒ ትምጓኣዝ ት ግዛዕ ትራንስፖርት ተወፅኦ. . .
the cost of transport
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ጥራይ ንምንታይ ተውፅእ ኣለካ ንሸቃላይ ሱቁ ኢልካ ጉልበት ሰብ እዩ ዝሓተካ እምበይ. . .
What you need is laborers to carry the stones.
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ንካሊእ ማሊእ የብልካን።
You don't have other costs.
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ባኣሉ ኣንዲ ትፈልየሉ. . .
You can make pillars out of it.
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ባሉ ሜትሮካ ካልዕ ትፈላልየሉ።
It makes a difference
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እንታይ እኒካ እቲ ግን ና ካልሊእ ኣይኮነስዋይ ናይ ስሚንቶይ ናይ ገለይ ለጣፍኦ. . .
but in building there are costs like cement costs
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ካላኣይ ድማ ክሻብ ተሃሊዩካ በጀት . . .
And secondly if you have the budget
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ብሃድ ግዚ ትጥቅልሎ ተሲኢንካ ግን. . .
you can carve continuously, but if you don't have enough budget
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ግን እንታይ ትገብር ኣለካ እናኣረፍካ ተሰርሒካዮ ማይ አይወቅኦ. . .
you can carve term by term;
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ኣየብል
no need to wory about the rain
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ኣይልሕልሕ ኮይኑዎ እዩ።
or other factors.
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ኩል ግዘ ክረምቲ ተሰራርሕካዮ ወርቂ. . .
You can work at it in summer
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ሃጋይ ተስርሂካዮ ውርቂ . . .
and other seasons.
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ኣብ ኩሉ ዘሎ እዩ።
All seasons are possible.
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እዩ ጥኡም እዩ ክንዲ እምኒ ክንዲ ምሕንፅ ዝክውን አይጋነይን ።
Building is better
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እሺ።
Okay
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ስለዚ በጠቅላላ ህንፃ ምቅራፅ ውቁር ቤተክርስትያን ርካሸ. . .
So, in general, is carving cheaper
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ቅርሹ ርክስ ልበለ ካብ ምስራሕ ማለት እዩ።
than that of building?
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እዋይ ቕርሺ እባ እቲ ይወስድ ኣሎ እቲ ንምራይ ንምባል ንምስባር ዝጥቅልሎ. . .
That one is expensive.
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እቲ ይጥቅልሎ ኣብቲ ኣስራርሓ ግን እቲ ግን ገንዘብ መሊሱ ንቲ ሸቃላይ. . .
[Given the]cost of daily laborers
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ገንዘብ ትደፍእ ኣለካ ።
it will be expensive.
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ኣየኑ ይከብር ማለት እዩ ?
Which one is expensive?
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ክብረት እማ ኣብዚ ክስታይ ኣብ ሕንፃ ።
Building.
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ኣብ ሕንፃ እዩ ልከብር?
Building is expensive?
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እሺ ኣብቲ ልስራሖ ከመይ እዩ ?
When you build
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ልስሚንቶ ልወፅይ ንምናምን ብዙሕ ኣየውፅእይ ማለት ድዩ እሱ?
Isn't there a cost for cement?
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ልስሚንቶ ኣይተውፅእ. . .
You don't have cement cost
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ልእምኒ . . .
for stone.
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ኣፍቲ ሓደ ?
In the other one?
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እሺ።
ok
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ኣፍቲ ልስራሕ ቤተክርስቲያን ከምዙ ብመንደቅ ልስራሕ
In the church which is built with walls?
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Yes
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ኣብኡ ከ ይወጽእ ዶ ወጪ ?
Did you have any cost there?
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ንሱማ ቢም ትኣስር ኣብ ታሕታይ . . .
Yes, you have to tighten a beam at the bottom.
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እሞ እሱ ዶ ይከብር ዶ ይኮን ?
So is that one expensive?
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እወ።
Yes
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ይከብር . . . ሕንፃ ዶ ይከብር እቲ ና ውቅር?
Building or Carving?
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ዋይ እቲ ማ እቲ ል. . .
Ohh it was..
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ገንዘብ እማ ኣፍቲ ኣብ መንደቅ።
Building is expensive.
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መንደቅ ይከብር።
It's expensive
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ሐዚ ከመይ ክሰርሕ ክኢሎም ምስራሕስ ብምንታይ እዩ ጀሚሮም ሐዚ?
What started you to be a craftsman or
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ምክኒያቱ ናብዚ ስራሕ ለእተዮም ልብ ሕንፃ?
to take part in the profession of carving?
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ለእተየኒ ናብ ሕንፃማ መጀመርታ ናባእለይ ጀመርኩ ብድሕሪኡ ና ገበር ጀመርኩ . . .
Of course I started in my house then on other people’s houses
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ርእይ ተበልኩዎ ግን ትናይ ገባር ውልቀ ትሰርሖ ገንዘብ . . .
but this business sometimes
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ገብኡ ለ ባእሲ የምፅኣልካ ገሊኡ ፍቅሪ የምፅኣልካ እዩ።
leads you to quarrels with some people
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ልምንታይ ተኮይኑ ግን እዚእንድሕር ሓንጎልካ እናተቀሪፁ ተከይዱ ግን . . .
Why, if you think of it...
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ንታ ሓደ ወገን ፅድቂ ኣለዎ እዩ ።
So since every body is mortal,
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ሓደ ወገን ድማ ቁምነገር እዚ ትካል ሓዲካ ምሟት ሰብ ካብ ሞት ኣይቀርይ እንድሕር ተፈጢሩ ።
I decided to contribute to churches.
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እዚ ታሪክ ሓዲካ ምሟት ለ ፅቡቅ እዩ ።
And making history is the best thing you can achieve.
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እሺ ።
Ok
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ቲ ከዚ ብዚኣ ንጀምር እሞ . . .
Ok, lets finish with this one.
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እ ወረዳ ና ና ቤተክርስቲያና . . .
Tell me the wereda name
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ስማ ገለ ክነግሩና እዮም ማለት እዩ ።
and the church name
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ካብኡ ቀፂልና ናብዛ ካልኣይቲ . . .
and then we will continue to the second one
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ሳልሰይቲ እናበልና ንከድ ማለት እዩ ኣቶ ጊደይ ።
and then we will proceed to the third one.
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እዚ ቦትኡ ታይ እዩ ልበሃል ።
First, would you tell me the name of this place?
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እዚ . . .
This one?
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Yes
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ሃረግዋ ።
It is called Hareguwa
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ሃረግዋ ?
Hareguwa?
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Yes
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ወረዳ ታይ ?
What district?
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ወረዳ ?
District?
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ጣብኡ ፍረወይኒ ይበሃል።ወረዳ ሓውዜን።
Tabia Freweiny, wereda Hawzen
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ቤተክርስቲያን ስሙ ።
The name of the church?
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ሚኬኤል።
St. Michael's Church
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ሚኬኤል ሓሪግዋ።
Michael Hareguwa.
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ኣብ ውሽጢ እታ ካልአይቲ ልሰርሑዋ ከ?
What about the second one?
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እታ ካልአይቲ?
The second one...
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What?
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አንዳባገሪማ።
It is called Enda Aba Gerima Church
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ቦትኣ ታይ ትበሃል ማለት እዩ ?
What is the place called?
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ሰላዓ ።
Senbelae
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ወረድኣ?
District?
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ወረዳ ሓደ እየን ።
The district is the same as the first one (Wereda Hawzen)
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እሕ
Okay
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ጣብየን ለ ሓደ እየን ።
The same is their Tabia (Tabia Freweiny)
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ቁሸታ ግን . . .
but the sub district...
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ጣብያ ምስዚኣ ሓደ ድየን ጣብየን?
Is their Tabia the same?
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Yes
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ቁሸት ሰላእ ተብሒሉስ. . .
But the sub district is called Solo’a.
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ጣብያ ፍረወይኒ ወረዳዓ ሓውዜን ።
district Hawzien subdistrict Freweyni .
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እሺ።
okay
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ዛ ሳልሰይቲ ከ ?
What about the third one?
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ንሳ ለ ቁሸት ቆራር ትበሃል።
It is also called kushet Korar.
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እሺ።
Ok
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ጣብያ ሓደ እየን ።
the tabia is the same
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ታይ ትበሃል ?
What is it called?
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ፍረወይኒ ትበሃል።
Tabia Freweyni
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ወረድኣን ሓደ እየን ሃውዜን።
and the wereda is Hawzen.
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እታ ታይ እያ ልነበረት ልበሉኒ ?
Where is the place of the third church?
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ቆራር ዳ መግደላዊት ።
It is called Enda Megdelawit Mariam Church in wereda Hawzien, Tabia Freweiny, Kushet Korar.
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እታ ራብዕይቲ ከ ?
What about the fourth one?
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እቲኣ. . .
That one..
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ታ ጣብያ . . .
the sub destrict
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ኣይፈልጣይ ታ ቁሸታ ወረድኣ ግን ሓደ እየን ሃውዜን እዩ።
I don;t know what tabia it is, but its wereda is Hawzien
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ጣብያ ግን ኣይፈአልጥዋይ ?
So you don't know the name of the tabia?
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ጣብያ ግን ኣይፈአልጣይ።
No I don't.
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እሺ ።
ok
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ኣየና ልነበረት እያ እሳ ዛ ራብኣይቲ?
What was the fourth one's name?
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ዳ ጆወርግስ።
It is called Enda Giyorgis (St. George) Church
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እዚኣ ምሰርሑስ ከመይ ዘን ካልኣይ ሳልሳይ ራብኣይ ከመይ ክሰርሑወን ክኢሎም ?
After you carved the four churches successfully, you are also carving many other churches, how ?
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ብምንታይ ሚክኒያት ?
Why?
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እቶም ዓዲ ይመፁኒ እሞ እዚ ምስረአዩ እናመፁ እዚ አምባ ይህነፁ ዶ ይብሉኒ።
After they see my four works, people came from different corners of the region and asked me to carve for them.
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ከይደ ይርእዩ።
So I checked the rocks
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ዳሓር ከይደ ምስ ራኣኩዎ ይሕነፅኡ እዩ ይብሎም።
to see if they are suitable[for carving]
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ካብኡ ካብ ድሕሪኡ ስራሓና ንቅፅል ንሰርሕ።
and I do my entire best.
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ናብ ገዝኦም ይመፅዎም ማለት እዩ ።
A: Do they come home?
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Yes, they do.
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ኩሉግዘ ግን ከመይ ነይሩ እዛ ታይ ስሙ . . .
What is mainly...
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እ እዚ ኮክሒ . .
the rock..
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ኩል ጊዘ ልጠየቁዎምዎሲ ኩል ጊዜ ፅቡቅ ኩይኑ ኣግኒኮምዎ
Is the rock always suitable?
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ኩሉ ፅቡቅ እዩ እወ ኩሉ ፅቡቅ ኣግኒየዮ።
Fortunately all the rocks I am asked to work are suitable.
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እቲ ስጥም ዝበለ ከውሒ ጉልበት ሰብን ሓይሊ ሓፂን የድልየካ አዩ።
Of course, the harder the rock, the more manpower and metal tools you need.
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አበይኑ አጋጢምዎም ነይሩ ከምኡ?
Where did you face a harder rock?
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ላእላይ እንዳጀወርጊስ ።
At Enda Giyorgis( St. George).
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እሳ ስጥም ዝበለት?
That was strong.
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ስጥም ዝበለት ።
Strong.
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አብዚ ጀወርጊስ ፀሊም ከውሒ ኣግኒና ነይርና እሱ ድዩ ስጥም ዝበለ ከውሒ ዝበሃል ?
We found a black rock. Is that the harder rock?
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እወ ።
Positive!
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ቱ ፀሊም ከክሒ እሎ ማ እወ
Black rocks are harder.
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ንሱ ልዚ ሓጪን ተእቶ ከለካ . . .
They can even break our metal tools
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ጉርድ ይብል . . .
It will fall down.
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ንሱ ልኮነ ግን ልሱ ከቢድ እዩ ።
It is so hard.
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ከምኡ ኢሉ እናሓለየ ከ ቲ ና መቅደስ እዩ ቲ ና ጀወርግስ?
Are you going to keep up working at Enda Giyorgis (St. George) church
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ና ጀወርግስ?
Giyorgis
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እወ እቲ ፀሊም ኮክሒ ተረኪቡ እኒዮ ።
with its hard black rocks?
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ከምኡ ኢሉ እናሓለየ ክቅፅልዎ እዮም ኢሎም ይሓስቡ ዶ ?
Are you going to continue?
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ንሱማ ገና ዳ ኣይኮነይ ጠጠው ኣቢሎም ገንዘብ ስኢኖም እዮም እምበይ. . .
Undoubtedly! I gave up for the time being due to lack of finances
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ክቅፅል እዩ ገና ቅርፃ ቅርፂ አይዎፆን እሱ ገና ብገኑኣነኡ ጀሚሩ እዩ ተጀሚሩ እኒሆ ።
Of course, I'm not going to craft shapes as it is difficult.
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ሕዚ ከምዚ ከቢድ ከውሒ ከጋጥም ተሎ።
If you get such hard black rocks,
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ክቛርፆ እየ ኢሎም ዶ ይሓስቡ ወይስ ዝኮን ታይ ይሓስቡ ።
are you going to give up or keep up?
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ዝቛርፅ ገንዘብ እዩ እምበር ኣነ ክቛርፅ አይሓስብን ።
What stops me are the financial constraints, but I am ready to do all my best despite the hardships if full finance is obtained. In short, everything depends upon the finances.
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እሺ።
okay
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መሳርሒ ጠንካራታት እዮም ማለት እዩ ?
Do you mean the tools are too strong?
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ጠንካራታት እዮም ኩሉ መሳሪሕና ግን መናፍሒና ኣብዚ መሳሪሕና ሰሪሒና ዘዚተሰበረ እናጠገና ።
Yes. All the tools are strong and in case some of them get broken, we take them to the traditional welders.
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ንሰርሕ ክሽኢቱ ኣብኡ እዩ ኮይና።
We do it there.
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ዋላ እቲ ዝተሰበር ትፅግንዎ ዲኩም ?
So you do the mending?
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እወ አናደሕና ንሰርሕ።
Definitely!
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እሕ
Okay
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ሕዚ ኣብዚ ክንደይ ታቦት እኒሆ ይከውን ?
Do you know how many arks of the covenant are here?
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ኣይ ኣብ ውሽጢ ታቦት እዚ ?
The arks ofthe covenant inside?
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Yes
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ወዮ ኣለም ኮይኑ ታ እሞ ንፍለጦ።
I don't know
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ናይዘን ካልኦት ከ ይፈልጥወን ዶ ?
What about the arks of the covenant in other churches?
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ኣፍቲ መንበር ዘሎ ድዩስ ሱቅ ኢልካ ኣብቱ ?
Do you mean the arks of the covenant inside the churches?
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ኣብዚ ሐዚ ክንደይ ታቦት እኒዮ እንድሕር ልፈልጡ ጥራሕ?
Yes if you know it?
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ንሱ ኣይፈልጦይ ወያው ኣደይ ጽጊሪዳ ሰለ ዝኮነ ንይቲ ስርሕ ።
Since I live in Tsigereda, not here, I don’t know about it.
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ከባቢያታት እዞም ዘሎ ድዩም?
[Aren't] there people here [to ask]?
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ናዘን ካልያት ይፈልጥዎ ደሞ ?
Don’t you know about the others,
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ናይ ካልያት እማ . . .
The other one...
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ናይዘን ዝሰርሕዎም ናይዘን ኣርባኣተ ?
you have already crafted?
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ናተን ውሽጢ ዳኣ ታማ ክፈልጦ መንበሪ ደኣ ውሽጢ መን ከአትወኒ።
How could I know because working people like me are not allowed to enter?
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ካብ መንበር እማ ክሒን እዩ ዝፈልጦ ።
The priest knows it.
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ሕዚ ንሕና እንታይ ኢና ንብል ክሻዕ እታ ናኣትዎ ንሕና።
We know ....
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እታ መቅደስ ሰሪሕና ኮሲቲርና ንዓ ቀሺ ኢልና እታ መንበሪ ኢና ንሕግዞ እምበይ. . .
What I do is carving and go home.
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ታቦት 2ስ ይሃልዎ 3ስ ይሃልዎ ሃድ መንበር መን ይፈልጦ እዚኣ ቀሺ እዩ ዝፈልጣ ።
Only the priests know about the Ark of the convenant
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ሕዚ ክሰርሑ እንተለዎ ንቲ ሕዝቢ መን እዩ ዝሕግዞ ክስርሑ ተለዉ . . .
Who sponsors you and the laborers while you are carving?
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ሓገዝ ዝገብረሎም ገለ ዶ ነይሩ ንዞም ዘስርሑ ዘሎዉ ሰብ?
Who supports them?
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አነ ክሰርሖ ከለኩማ እቲ ሕዝቢ ተወፃፂኡ ክመፅ ከሎ. . .
When i was working, the people would come...
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ሓድ ገፅ ከምዚ ናይ ሕብረት ኢሎም ከምዚ ብጉጅለ ብጉጅለ ተሓሂዞም. . .
All pilgrims of the surrounding people contribute
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ልሕግዙ እኒየው ት ኣዲ ባእሉ ።
some financial support
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ካልኣይ ደረጃ ደማ ብመንግስቲ ከምኡ እናፍቀዱ . . .
and so does the government.
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ይሕግዝዎ እኒየው ማለት እዩ ።
They support them.
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ሳልሳይ ብባት ነብሲ ኮይኖም እንድሕር ጠንካራታት ኮይኖም እዚ ግን ብባት ነብሲ እዩ ሰሪሕናዮ ።
Most importantly, the confessors of each pilgrim take the lion’s share in mobilizing so that the pilgrims willingly contribute their own share.
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እሕ ሕዚ ኣብዘን ዝሰርሕዎን 4 ቤተክርስትያን ሓገዝ ንቲ ቤተክርስትያን መስሪሒ ካበይ ይመፅ ነይሩ ማለት እዩ?
So where did you get the finances for the construction of the four rock-hewn churches/
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እዚ እቲ ሳንቲም ካብ ዓዲ እዩ ዝመፅት ሳንቲም ካብ ኣዲ እዩ ልመፅእ።
From the pilgrims of the area as I mentioned earlier.
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ናብዞም ኣብኡ ለለው ሕብረተሰብ ?
Do you mean from the people living around?
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እእ ካብኡ እናወፁ ብለቃረፁ ጠጠው የብሉ ።
Yes. If they stop contributing their own share, the job is abandoned.
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እ እሺ
Okay
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ሕዚ ኣብ ካሊእ ቤተክርስትያን ዝሰማኣናዮ. . .
We heard that
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ካብ ካሊእ ካብ መቀለ ፣ካብ ኣዲስ ኣበባ ፣ካብ ድሪዳዋ፣ካብ ሓረር ዝላከሎም ቅርሺታት ነይሩ ።
the financial support came from Mekelle, Addis Ababa, Dire Dawa, and Harar.
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ነይሩ ዝስርሑ ዝቅርሺ ከመይ ክምዝመፅ ይፈልጥዎ ድዮም እሶም ወይስ. . .
Do you know how all these finances were raised,
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ከመይ ከምዝ መፅ እይፈልጥውይ እሶም ?
or not?
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ዋናይ ቅርሺ ዝምፅ እማ ዓዲ ባልቶም እዮም ዝፈልጥዎ እቶም ኣባላት እምበር ካብ ኣባላት እየ ዝቅበል።
Those who know about all these things are the committee members. What I know is that I get my fees from the committee.
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ንሶም ምስኡ ዘጋንይ ይብሎምይ?
Do you mean you don’t have any contact with it?
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እወ ዘጋንይ ይብለይን ።
Yes. I have nothing to do with the committee’s business.
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ከዚ ንምስራሕ ክሰርሑ እንተለዉ ምስ መን እዮም መጀመርታ መን እዩ ዘነጋግሮም ምስ እቲ ገበዝ ድዩ?
With whom do you negotiate before you start, with the church warden
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ድዩ ምስዚ ቤተክርስትያን መተሓዳዳሪ ድዩ?
or the governor?
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መን እዩ ምስኦም ዝነጋገር ከመይ ክምዝስራሕ ?
Who contacts you about how the work is to be done?.
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መጀመርታ ናብ ዓደይ ይመፁኒ እሞ ምስ መፁ እንታይ ይከውን እቶም ኣባላት ታኪቦም ይፀኑሑኒ ።
First the elected committee members of the place come to my home, they are
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ናይቲ ዓዲ ዝተመረፁ . . .
the chosen people.
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ሕዚ ናይ ባልቶም ኣቦ ወንበር እሎም ዳኣኮነይ. . .
They have their own leader; then
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ምስኡ ብክንድዚ ሜትሮ ቁመት ንዓቀብ ክንድዚ ን ጎኒ ተባሂልና ውዕል ንኣስር።
we sign the contract with the leader of the committee based on their decisions about the length, the width, the shapes they need and the way it is to be decorated.
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ምስ መን የዋግኡ ማለት እዩ?
With whom do you communicate?
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ምስ እቶም ኣባላት ።
With the committee members.
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ምስ ዞም ኣባላት።
With the committee members.
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ሓደ ድዮም ክልተ ሰባት ድዮም ?
With one or two or many of the committee members.
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ሃደ ሽድሽተ ይኾኑ እባ ።
With all the committee members, who are at least six.
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ናይዚ ቤተክርስቲያን ኣባላት ማለት እዩ ?
The members.
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እ ንሳቶም ናብቲ ሕብረተሰብ ብክምዚ ወዲኢና ኢሎም . . . ናብኡ ይውግዕዎ።
The committee members report the cost to the people.
Okay.
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እሺ ።
Okay
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እቲ ቦታ ከመይ ዝበሉ እምኒታት እንእቲ ቦታ ከመይ ዝበሉ እምኒታት እን. . .
How is the rock of the place where you contracted to work?
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ከመይ ኣይነት ኮክሒታት?
Which type of rock is it?
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እምኒ እማ ኩሉ እቲ ከውሒ ሲ ፃኣዳ እኒሆ ንበይኑ ቀያሓቲ እኒሆ።
The site has white, red, and lead-like rocks in it.
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እኒሆ ኩሕሊ ዝምስል እኒሆ እና ዝተፈላለየ እዮ እቲ እንባ ነናይ ባኣሉ ገፁ።
It has many and different features.
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ክንደይ አይነት ከውሒ እኒሆ ይከውኑ?
How many types of rock do you think there are?
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እዚ ማ . . .
Wow! It has many.
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ፃእዳ ቀይሕ. . .
Red, white…?
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ቀይሕ፣ ሽሮዋይ ዝመስል እኒሆ
There are red, orange,
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ፀሊም እኒሆ ።
black;
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እኒሆ ኣብቲ ውሽጢ ክትከይድ እንተለካ ናይ ባኣሉ ክስታይ መሲሉ ።
in the inside
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ድምብልብሎ እምኒ እኒሆ ልክዕ ከም ገረብ ዝቅመጥ ካብኡ ንሱ ተግኒካ ክሳብ ሸርሺርካ ተውፅኦ ኣይልክፈካይ ንብረት የለን ።
round, flat and wooden-like hard rocks are foumd. When I chisel the wooden-like hard rocks, it is too hard to carve; that’s when and why I have lost many of my tools.
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ኣየኑኡ ቀሊል ግን ንምስራሕ ካብም ልበልዎም?
Which is easy to carve?
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ቀሊል ኣማ ዝጠቅም ንዓዲ እማ እምባ ።
The easiest to me and the most important to the dwellers is a hill-like rock.
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ዝቀለሎም ንስራህ ኣየናይ ኣት ቀይሕ ዶ ፀሊም ወይ እቲ ፃኣዳ ድዮ እቲ ብጫ?
From the coloured rocks mentioned, which one is the easiest for you to carve?
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እቲ ፃኣዳ እባ።
For me, the white rocks are easiest to carve.
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እሱ ኣዩ ዝቀልል ንምስራሕ ?
Is the white rock easier to carve?
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እቲ ቀሊል ንሱ ስራሕ እዩ።
Yes, the white rock is easier for me to carve.
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እቲ ቀይሕን እቲ ፃኣዳን አየንኡ ካብዚ ቀይሕን ፃኣዳን አይንኡ ይቀልል?
In comparison, which rock is easier, the white rock or the black rock?
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ቀይሕ ይቀልል ።
the red one.
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መሊሱ ካብኡ ለ . . .
and also..
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ካብዚ ፃዓዳ እቲ ቀይሕ ይቀልል?
But it seems the red is easier?
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መጀምርታ ፃዓዳ ፅቡቅ ኢለካ ቀሊል ኢልካ
Primarily, the white is easier
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በድሕሪኡ ድማይ መልሱ ካብ ቀይሕ ዝበለ እኒሆ።
than the red one;
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እ ካልእይ ብካልእይ ደርጃ ንሱ?
It is better with the 2nd level.
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ሕም
Yes
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ካብቲ ሱጡም ግን ናብስታት ፀሊም ዝበለ እኒሆ ንሱ ስጡም።
yet the black is the hardest rock.
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ትስርሕ ተለኩም እቲ ፀሊም ብሓደ ግዚ ከምዚ ኮክሕር ኣብልኩም ተውፅእዎ ዲኩም ወይስ መጀምርታ ኲትኩም?
Do you separate the black rock from the others
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ወይስ ኩሉ ብሃደ ግዚነፂልኩም ድዩ ክተውፅኦዎ ትክእሉ ኢኩም?
or you dig all the rocks out together at the same time?
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እቲ ንውፅኦ እንተለና?
When we dig it?
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ፀሊም ተኮይኑ ?
If it was black?
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ሃበሻዊ እዩ ሱቅ ኢሉ ብሓባር እዩ ዘውፅ ታሓታይ ይስርሕሉ ከም መደያይቦ እንኮነልካ ዶ ይፅንሕ. . .
We bring all together and we carve them accordingly.
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ንሳ አይኮነትን ዝብለኩም ዘለኩ. . .
I didn't say that..
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ክተውፅእ ፅሊም እባ ብሓደ ግዚ ኩሉ ቆፊርኩም ነቂልኩም ተውፅእዎ ትክእሉ ዲኩም ወይስ ግዲታ ትወቅእዎ እኒሐኩም?
What I am asking you isdo you dig out all the black rocks together or split it into pieces first?
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ዋ ንሱማ ግዲታ ክሳብ ዘቓርፅ ትውድኣ ።
Aha! I dig it out till it disappears.
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ምስ መን ይዋግኡ ማለት እዩ ቦትኡ ዓቀኑ ክንደይ ክንደይ ከምዝኮን ምስ መን ይነጋገሩ ማለት እዩ?
With whom hom do you negociate about the length, the width and the shapes and decorations in it?
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ምስ መን ይነጋገሩ ማለት እዩ?
With whom do you negociate?
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ምስቶም ኣባላት።
I negociate with the members of the committee.
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ምስቶም ኣባላት እማ. . .
With the committee
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ቁመት ንዓቀብ ናብዚ ኣርባኣተ ሜትሮን ፈረቃን ግበርልና ይብሉኒ።
They ask me to make it four and a half meters long
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እ ወርዱ አሰርተ ክልተ ይብሉኒ።
and twelve meters wide.
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እየውሕን ሽድሽተ ፣ሸውኣተ ሜትር ይብሉኒ።
They say 6 or 7 meters.
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እዚ ግን መጀመርታ ምስወዳኣና ድሕሪኡ ናይ ባኣለይ ቀይሰ ዳሓረይ ስፈሩ ኢለ ሓዲገ ።
Finally I can make it accordingly or may be greater and more attractive than they expect.
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ምስቶም ናይ ቤተክርስትያን ኣባላት ኢኩም ተዋግኡ ?
Finally I can make it accordingly or may be greater and more attractive than they expect. Yes, I do.
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መብዛሓቲኡ ግዚ እቲ ቤተክርስትያን ፕላኑ መን እዩ ለውፅኦ ?
Most of the time who plans the design of the church?
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ፕላኑ እማ ባኣለይ ።
It is I who plan the design.
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ባኣሎም እዮም ፕላን ዘውፅኡ።
You plan it yourself.
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ፕላን ከውፅዑ ከለዉ ኣብ ውረቀት ይስእልዎ ድዮም. . .
When you plan the design, do you sketch it on paper?
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ወይስ ከመይ ብምንታይ መንገድ እዮም ልከዱ ?
or what?
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ኣናኣመምኩ ኣየ ዝክይድ በቃ።
No sketching
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ከመይ ?
How?
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ሱቑ ኢለ ዶ ንወድያው እናሰራሓኩ ይከይድ. . .
What I do is immediately go into action
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እታ ሜትሮ ታክለኒ ምስበለት እማ. . .
When I am about to reach the summit,
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ስፍር ኣቢለ እንልመፅኩ መሊሰ. . .
I smear it
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ከምሓድሽ እንፍፍሓኩ ይከድ።
and keep on carving.
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እምበይ ኣብ ወረቀት ገለ አይስእሉን ብኣይኖም እዮም ዝከዱ ?
But you didn’t make a sketch. Simply you use your own eye judgement? Definitely.
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ንመዐቀኒ ከ እንታይ ይጥቀሙ ?
What do you use to measure?
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ሜትሮ።
A meter.
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ሜትሮ ካሊእ ከ?
What else?
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ካሊእማ እንታይ ኣይንና እዩ ልስርሕ ።
Nothing else>
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ካሊእ ብኢዶም ይዕቅኑ ድዮም ?
Do you use your hands to measure?
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ሜትሮ ዶ እንሆይ ብሜትሮ እና።
How on earth! There is a meter to measure with.
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እዞም ዝሰርሕዎም ዘለዉ ካብ ካሊእ ቤተክርስትያን ድዮም እናረአዩ ዝስርሕዎ ወይስ ብናይባሎም ፈጠራ እዩ ?
Do you carve all the churches by imitating from others’ works or are they of your own creativity?
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ይላመዶ መጀመርያ ነገር ።
I exercise it first.
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ማለተይስ እዞም ናዮም ዝሰርሕዎም ልክም ሊ እዚ ዋላ እዘን ዝተረፋ ቤተክርስትያን?
I mean do the customers ask you
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ንእኡ ኣርእዮም ንዑኡ ስርሑልና ድዮም ዘስርሕዎ . . .
the same design as you have already crafted?
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ወይስ ብናይ ባኣሎም ኣሰራርሓ እዮም ዝሰርሕዎ /
or do they come with their own design
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መጀመርታ ንኣቶም እንታይ ክም ናይ ምን ይሕሸኩም ይብሎም ።
It is according to their preference.
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ኣይ ባኣልካ ዝሓስብካዮ እንድሕር ኢሎምን ባለይ ዝሓሰብኩዎ ይፍፅመሎም።
If they leave it for me to design, I do so. If they tell me their choice, I do my best accordingly. Any ways, all is okay to me.
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አይነን አይነን ብከምኣ ስሪሖም ብባኣሎም ዝፈፀምዎ ?
Which rock-hewn churches are designed by you?
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ብናይ ባኣለይ ዶ?
Myself?
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እዚኣ እንዳ ሚቻኣልን እቲኣ ክስቲ ።
St. Michael and
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ኣየና?
Which one?
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እንድ ኣባ ገሪማይን ።
Enda Aba Gerima rock-hewn churches are of my design.
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እሳ ብንይባኣሎም ።
Your own design?
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እእ
Yes
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እተን ክልተ ክ ብናይመን ብናይመን ከይዶም ?
If so what about the other two rock-hewn churches?
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ና እንዳ መግድላዊት. . .
The Megdelawit Mariam church’s design
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ብናይ እንዳ ኣርባኣተ እንስሳ ቀመር
is imitated from Enda Arba’Entsessa .
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ከምኡ ግበረልና ኢሎምና እቶም ኣዲ።
since the customers ordered me to do so.
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ከምኡ እዮም . . .
Like that..
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ብእኡ ኣሊኢልና ስሪሕናዮ ማለት እዩ።
We did it like that.
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እዚ ኣ ለ ብናይ እንዳ ጅወርግስ ማይ ወይኒ ማይ ካዶ ዝብሓል ኣሎ ብቲ ትሓቲ . . .
This one is taken from the design of St. George's church of May Wayni
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ከይድና ከምዚኣ ገይርካ ትሰርሐልና ኢሎምኒ ብናይ ሱቑ ኢልና ብዓይንና ኣሊኢልና . . .
at my clients’ request.
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እወ ምስራሕ ጀሚርና ከምኣ ድርጀት ።
yes.
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ሕዚስ ክሰርሁ ከለዉ ስ ኣተን ክልተ ኣቢሎም ዝሰርሕዎ ማለት እዩ . . .
When you carved these two,
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ብትክክል ድዮም ተስርሖም ኢልኩም ትግምቱ ካብ ዚን ዝራኣይዎን?
did you think you had carved them correctly?
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እቲኣ ካ አይተወደእትን ገና እያ እኒያ?
Enda Giyorgis is not finished yet.
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እይና
Which one?
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ዛ ጀወርግስ?
Giyorgis
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ና እንዳ ጀወርግስ እማ ገና እዩ ።
Yes. Enda Giyorgis is not finished yet as it is under trial.
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እታ ማርያም መግደላዊት ከ ?
What about the Megdelawit Mariam church?
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ናይ መግደላዊት ለለዋ ጎደሎ ንእሽተይ።
Something remains to be done.
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ኣብ ምንታያ ጎደሎ እኒኦዋ ማለት እዩ ?
What remains to be done at Megdelawit Mariam?
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ኣብ እግራ ዘሎ ክልተ ጎና ዘሎ።
[There is work to be done] on the floor and on its two sides.
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እህ
Okay
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እተን ኣፈላላየን ታይ እየን ከዚ?
What is different in the case of Megdelawit Mariam?
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ኣፈላላይ ዶ?
The difference?
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ዛና ማርያም መግደላዊት እወ?
Mariyam Megdelawit.
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መኒኡ ት ኣፍፈላላይ
Which differences?
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ሓደ ኣይነት ኣይኮናይ እወ ዶ ሙሉዕ ተመሳሰልዪን ድየን . . .
I mean they are nearly similar, not identical.
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እእ. . .
Okay
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ፍልይ ዘብላ ነገር ዛማርያም መግደላዊት ታይ እኒኦዋ?
What is special about Mariam megdelawit,
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ካብዛ ዝወሰዱና ካብዛ ና ኣርባእተ እንስሳ?
Which is not found in Enda Arba’ Entsessa?
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ካብ ና ኣርባእተ እንስሳ ፍልይ ዝበለ?
The difference between?
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እ. . .
Yes
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ዝ ቀስተ ደበና እኒኦዋ ዝተፈለየ የተሰርሐይ ኣብኡ ነይሩ።
The rainbow [arches] and the thinner pillars are special to Mariam Megdelawit
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ኣብ ማርያም መግደላዊት የተሰርሐይ እሱ?
OK, it is not done in Mariam Megdelawit ?
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ዳ ኣርባእተ እንስሳ የተሰርሐይ።
Which is not found in Enda Arba’ Entsessa.
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የነበረይ ኣብኡ?
It wasn't there?
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Yes
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ሐዚ ግን ንዝ ቀጣን ዶ ላይ ት ዓምዲ. . .
The thin column
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ኣብዝ ኩሉ ሕንፃታት ዳ ኣብርሃ ኣፅብሃ የለ ዳ ገለ የለ ከምኣ የላይ።
There is nothing like that in other churches like Abreha Atsbeha.
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ብኣውሒ እያ ትትከል ብኦም።
The steps in Enda Arba’ Entsessa are made of wood.
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ኣብ ኦም ስራሕ ተትከድ ከለካ ንሳ ትግነይ እምበይ. . .
When you did it in other ...
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ኣብ ኮክሒ ኣብ ህንፃታት ኣይርከብን ንሳ ።
but here in Mariam Megdelawit they are rock-hewn.
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ሐዚ ኣንሕና ሕሱም እንድሕር ከኣልናዮ . . .
Now we are experts at it.
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ካሊእ እናወሰክና ልጠኣኣም እናገበርና እናከድና።
We make it right.
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ካብ አርባኣተ እንስሳ ዘፍላልያ ማርያም መግደላዊት. . .
So what makes Mariam Megdelawit rock-hewn church different is its
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ቀስተ ደመና ስልዘለዋ እዩ ማለት እዩ ።
rainbow [arches]
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ኣና ቀጠንቲ ኣንዲ ስለዘለዋ ።
and the pillars.
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Definitely
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ከመይ ከ ማኣዝ ማኣዝ ኢኩም ትሰርሑ ሐዚ . . .
When did you work?
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ክረምቲ ክከውን ተሎ ተቓርፅ ዲኩም . . .
Do you stop chiseling in winter?
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ተቓርፅሉ ግዚ እኒሆ ዶ ?
Is there a time you stop chiseling?
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ንቓርፀሉ ከባቢ ኣዋን አርባኣተ እንስሳ ጥቅምቲ ክሻብ እክልና ንኣፅድ።
We stop from October to mid November to harvest our crops.
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ክሻብ ፍርቂ ሕዳር ሚኪኤል ሕዳር ነቃርፅ ኢና ።
We stop on the Feast of St.Michael in November
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ሰነ ለ ሰነለ ካብ ኣባ ገሪማ ሰነ ክሳብ ኪዳነ ምሕረት ሓምለ ዘሪኢ ክንዘርእ ንቓርፆ ኢና ።
and from June (the celebration of Enda Aba Gerima's anniversary) to July 24 (for sowing the crops).
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ካሊኣ ግና ንሰርሕ ኢና ።
Excluding the months I have mentioned, we are always busy carving the churches.
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ና መጀመሪያ ካብ ጥቅምቲ ክሳብ ሕዳር . . .
The first one from October up to November
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ክሻብ ሚካኤል ሕዳር ።
Yes until St.Michael's day in November
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ኣብርሃ ወ ኣፅብሃ ክንደይ እለት እዩ ልነበረ ?
When is Arba’ete Entsessa?
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ኣርባእተ መኣልቲ ።
On the 4th of the month
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ሕዚ ስራሕ ክሰርሑ ከለው ግዲታ ኣብ ወሪሒ መጀመርታ ድዮም ክሰርሑ ዝደልዩ ወይስ ማንኛውም ማኣልቲ?
When do you prefer to start your job, at the start of the month or any time?
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ባሕቲ ጥራሕ ድዪ ልጅምሩ ስራሕ ወይስ ደስ ዝበሎም መኣልቲ ?
When did you start?
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ስራሕናማ ብዙ ና ናብራ ነቃርፆ እንተኮይና እምበይ. . .
Any time, unless we face subjective problems.
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ኩሉ ግዚ ደስታና እዩ ንሰርሕ ኢና ።
No special occasion to start.
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ሕዚ ክትሰርሑ እንተለኹም ብፀሎት ዲኩም ትጅምሩ ወይስ. . .
Do you begin your work with a prayer?
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እቲ ሕብረተሰብ ፆሎት ኣብፂሑ ድዩ ዝስራሓ ማለት እዩ ?
Do the people who live there begin their work with a prayer?
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ባኣልትና ባ ፆሎት ኣብፂሕና ንጅምር ኣዕሪና እንድሕር ተቀይምና እኮ ኣይፍንቀልን እቲ ከውሒ።
We begin with a prayer. Besides praying, we should be free of offences. If we have offended, the rocks are even harder than ever to carve,
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እሕ?
okey
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ሕዚ ግን ብሳሃቅ እናተደስትካ ትሰርሕ ይከደልካ ።
so we must always begin our job with clean hearts, happiness and laughter so that our deeds will be smooth and of the best [quality].
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ማላልቲ ማኣልቲ ዲኩም ትፅልዩ ናብ ስራሕ ትኣትዉ ከለኹም ?
Do you pray everyday before you begin your work?
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እወ ።
Yes
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ስራሕ ሕዚ ክንደይ ስዓት ትኣትዉ ናብ ስራሕ?
When do you begin your work?
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ስራሕ ዶ ?
Work?
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ገና ሃደ ስዓት
At dawn. Mostly at 7 a.m.
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ሃደ ስዓት ትኣትዩ. . .
You start at 7 a.m.
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ምሳሕ ከ ክንደይ ስዓት ትወፁ?
When do you eat lunch?
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ሽድሽተ ።
12 a.m.
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ካብኡ ክንደይ ትምለሱ ?
When do you return
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ኣብኣ ዳኣ ኮይናን ።
We stay there.
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ናብ ስራሕ ክንደይ ሰዓት ትምለሱ ?
When do you return to your job again after lunch?
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ናብ ስራሕ ዶ ማንም . . .
to work...
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ሽዋዓተ ንኣትው መሊስና ቁሩብ ንዘራጋሕ ሽሞንተ . . .
we enter about 1 P.M
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ሓሙሽተ ክኮና ከለዋ ቅሩብ ሃድ ስዓት እረፍቲ ንገብር ኢና ።
we rest for about one hour.
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ክንደይ ስዓት ናብ ድራርኩም ትከዱ ትውድኡ ስራሕ ?
When do you finish work and eat dinner?
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ስዓት ኣሰርተክልተ ።
At 6 p.m
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ምሸተ ሰሪሕኩም ትፈልጡ ዶ ለይቲ ?
Have you ever worked at night?
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ዋይ ለይቲ እማ ኣይንሰርሕን ኣይጀመርናን።
Never! We have never worked at night.
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ኣብ ምንታይ ኣብኡ ከባቢ ድዮም ዝነብሩ ነይሮም ወይስ ክሰርሑ እንተለው ወይስ እናተመለላለሱ እዮም ልሰርሑ ነይሮም ?
Do you live here in the working area or somewhere else?
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ኣነ እናተመላለስኩ እየ ።
I live somewhere else. I travel to the work place from home.
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ካብ ገዝኦም?
From home?
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እእ
Yes
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ኩል ጊዘ እተን ኣርባት ቤተክርስትያን ማለት ድዩ ?
Did you carve all the four rock-hewn churches travelling [from home]?
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እናተመላለስኩ እየ ።
yes, I did.
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መኣልቲ መኣልቲ ይመላለሱ?
Do you travel every day?
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ና ሰኒ ገስጊሰ ይመፅእ ወይ ድማ ሰንበት ምሽት ይመፅእ እሞ ክሳብ ዓርቢ ።
No. I come here on Sunday evening or Monday early in the morning and stay the whole week here.
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ቀዳም ኣደይ ይኣቱው ሰንበት።
Then I go home on Saturday and rest on the weekends, especially Sunday.
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ሰንበት ኣዶም እዩ ለሕልፉ ማለት እዩ . . .
So you spend your weekend in your home?
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ኣብዘን ልተርፉ ካብ ሰኒ ክሳብ ኣርቢ ኣበይ የእርፉ ነይሮም ።
Where do you live on the weekdays?
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ኣደይ ።
In my Home
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ይነብሩ ባ ነይሮም ?
Where did you stay?
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ሰኒ ክሳብ ዓርቢ ኣብኡ እዮም ልሰርሑ እወ ዶ ?
When you were woking from monday till friday?
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ክሳብ ክሰርሕ ተለኹማ ገዛ ይፈልዩለይ እዮም እቶም ኣባላት ።
In a house which the committee gave me.
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ኣብ ጥቃ ቤተክርስቲያን ?
You mean they gave you a house to live in?
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እእ
Yes.
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ክንደይ ሰባት ብሓደ ትሰርሑ ነይርኩም ?
How many are the laborers?
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ኣብኡ በዝሆም ማለት እዩ ?
Their number?
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ዓሰርተ ንውእል ሓሙሽተ ንውእል በፋላላዩ እዩ ።
Sometimes ten, sometimes five. It depends, any way.
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እሕ
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ይፈልጥዎም ዶ ይኾኑ ምስኣም ዝሰርሑ ዝነበሩ ስማቶም።
Do you know the laborers’ names?
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እወ ይፈልጦም።
Yes, I know them all.
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መን መን ይበሃሉ ?
What are their names?
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ኣብ እንዳ ማርያም ኣብ እንዳ ማርያም መግደላዊት።
At Enda Mariam Megdelawit,
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ሓለቓ ዘርኡ።
there was Haleka (diacon) Zeru’e,
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ሓለቃ መን ?
Haleka who?
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ሓለቓ ዘርኡ።
Haleka Zeru
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እስኪ ፅናሕ. . .
I forget it
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ገረኪዳን ገብረስላሴ ።
Gebre Kidan Gebre Selassie,
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ገብረሂወት ገብረመድሕን ።
Gebre Hiwet Gebre Medhin.
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።ግን ኣለው ሃደ ሓምሽተ ስሞም ረሲዐዮም ኣምበይ።
And Some five more of them whom I forget now.
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ረሲኦምዎም ስሞም ?
Have you forgotten their names?
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ፅናሕ ክሳብ ነብል ።
Yes, wait; let me think
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ቅድሚ ክንደይ ኣመት እዩ ?
How long has it been?
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ሕዚ ዳኣኮናይ ፈፂምና ኣሚ ።
Last year.
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ስራሕ ትሰርሑ ከለኩም መብዛሃቱ ግዚ ብፍቃደኝነት ድዩ ብኩንትራት እዩ ዝውዳእ ነይሩ ?
When you worked on all these sites, were you on contract or on daily payments?
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እዚ ሱቑ ኢልካ ማኣልታዊ እዩ እቲ ግን ኩንትራት እዩ ነይሩ ።
This is paid on a daily basis, but that was on contract.
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እዚ ብማኣልታዊ?
This was daily?
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Yes
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ሰለስተኣን ግን ብኩንትራት ?
You mean you finished all four rock-hewn churches on daily payments and the other three by contract?
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እሕ
Yes
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ብክንደይ ወዲኦሞ እተን ና ስለስተን?
Could you tell me how much money you asked for the three churches?
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ብክንደይ ቅርሺ ማለተይ እዩ ?
How much money?
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እንዳ ኣባ ገሪማ 18 ኩንትራታ ።
Eighteen thousand birr for the Enda Aba Gerima church.
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ኣብቲ ንሜትሮ 15 እዩ ነይሩ ሓሙሽተ ብሓሙሽተስ።
But there we got fifteen thousand birr for carving 5 by 5 meters.
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15።
15
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ኣበይ?
Where?
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ዳ ማሪያም ።
In 'Enda Mariam'
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ማሪያም መግደላዊት 15 ሺሕ ማለት እዩ ?
You mean fifteen thousand birr for Enda Mariam Megdelawit church?
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እወ።
Yes
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5ተ ብ 5ተ ።
5 by 5 meters?
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ሜትሮ ከምኡ እናበልና ኢን ንሰርሖ።
Yes we did it like that.
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ክንደይ ብ ክንደይ ሰሪሖም ኣብ እንዳ ማርያም መግደላዊት ?
How wide is Enda Mariam Megdelawit church?
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ጠቅላልኡ ስፍሓቱ?
You mean the total width?
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Yes
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ዓሰርተ ክልተ ብ ዓሰረተ ክልተ ።
It is twelve by twelve.
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ክንደይ ተቀቢሎም ማለት እዩ ካብኡ?
How much money do you get from it?
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እቲ ገንዘብ ?
The money?
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ዋይ ዝቀደመ እናጠፍአ ንሸቃላይ እምበይ ።
Since we use the money for daily bases, I don’t know. You know we live from hand to mouth.
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ብክንደይ እባ ወሲዶሞ ማለተይ እዩ ።
How much do you take when you begin?
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ብክንደይ እማ ንቶም ሸቃሎ ዲኻ ንባዓለይ ?
You mean for the laborers or for me?
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ልባእሎም እባ ።
For you.
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ሕዚ ሕሙሽተ ብ ሕሙሽተ ድዮም 15 ሽሕ ዝቅበሉ ነይሮም ?
Did you get fifteen thousand birr for five by five?
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እወ ሓሙሽተ ብ ሓሙሽተ ዶ ይቅበል እቶም ስራሓተኛ ምስ ባኣለይ እዮም።
Yes. After I get the money, I have to pay for the laborers' wages.
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እሕ
Okay
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ኣብ ማሪያም መግደላዊት ማለት እዩ።
In Mariam Megdelawit church?
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ኣይተወደአን ዝሎ እወ እንዳ ማርያም መግደላዊት ?
Is Enda Mariam Megdelawit church still unfinished?
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እኒሆዎ እዩ ።
Yes
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ምስኦም ዝሰርሑ ዝነብሩ ካብዚ ከባቢ ድዮም ወይስ ካብ ካልእ ከባቢ ዝመፁ እዮም ?
Are the laborers who work with you from this work place or somewhere else?
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ካብዚለ ይስርሑ እዮም ካብ ካሊእ ቦታ እውን እናመፁ እዮም።
from both.
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መብዛሓቲኦም ከ ካብ ምንታይ ነይሮም ማለት እዩ ?
Where are most of them from?
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ካብ ኣዲ ።
From here.
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ካብ ኣዲ ኣዮም ።
They are local.
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ሕዚ ምስኦም ከሰርሑ ከለዉ ጎበዛት ኢሎም ድዮም ክመርፁ ተለው. . .
Those who work with you are they all well trained
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ወይስ ባኣሎም የለማምድዎም እዮም ።
or you might hire unskilled ones whom you train?
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ጎበዛት እባ ኢለ ይመርፆም እሞ ብቱ ስራሕ ለ እናለማመድኩ ይከድ።
I prefer those who are not skilled or with small skills as the skilled ones are very expensive and take their own contacts.
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ከመይ ጌርኩም ኣቀን ትእቅኑ ከለኩም ብምንታይ ትጅምሩ?
When you begin measuring, from where do you start ?
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ለይተወቀረ ብምንታይ ምውቃር ትጅምሩ ?
How do you start carving the rock?
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ናብነት ኣብቲ እኒያ ።
As you could see here,
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ብዚኣ ጌርና ብእግሪ ንጅምራ ።
I will start it from the bottom.
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ታይ ተውፅኡ መጀመሪያ ማለት እዩ ?
What will you bring out?
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እናሸርሸርና እናሸርሸርና ንከድ ።
We dig it
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በሪ ትኮን ማለት ድዩ ካብኡ ?
So does it become a door?
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እናኩኣትና እናኩኣትና ግን ድሕሪ 2ተ ሜትሮ ብልከና. . .
We will dig it [inwards] and carve it until we reach the 2 meter [point],
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ላብዚ ኣብዚ ንከድ ።
Then we will dig it out to its two sides.
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ንሰሜን ናብ ደቡብ ድዩ ናብ ምብራቅ?
Is it from north to south or East to West?
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ልሰሜን ልደቡብ ናብ ኩሉ ።
To north to south and to everywhere.
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ኣብዘን ና መጀመሪያ ዘለዋ 2ተ ሜትሮ ክንደይ ሰብ ክሰርሕ ይክእል?
How many laborers are expected for the two meters craft?
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ክንደይ ሰብ ክኣቱ ይክእል ?
How many laborers can enter?
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መጀመርታ ክልተ ሜትሮ 3ተ ሰብ ።
In the first two meters, three laborers.
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3ተ ሰብ ?
Three people.
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ልጎኒ ክንደይ ሜትሮ ማለት እዩ ሰለስተ ሰብ ክኣቱ ተኮይኑ. . .
If three laborers are going to work on it,
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ክንደይ ብክንደይ ትኮን እለዋ ማለት እዩ ብደንቢ ንክትኣክል ?
How many meters should be chiseled out to the sides?
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ንሳ እማ ሜትሮይ ኢስራ ንገብራ ።
Initially, this will be one meter and twenty centimeters.
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ዝበሪ ክትሰርሑ ተለኩም ብላእሊ ዲኩም ትጅምሩ ።
To make a doorway, do you start from the top
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ብላእሊ ድዩ ወይስ ብጎኒ ወይስ ብታሕቲ ብምንታይ ኢኩም ምፍሓር ትጅምሩ?
or the bottom or from the sides?
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ብእግሪ ዶ ንጅምራ ናቀረፅና ናቀረፅና ልውሽጢ ንኣቱ።
We begin from the bottom, then inside.
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እህ ብእግሪ ኢኩም ትጅምርዋ ?
Do you begin from the bottom?
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ጀሚርና ንውሽጢ ንኣቱ።
Yes!
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ሐዚ ትሰርሑ ተለኩም እቲ በሪ ገለ ተዉፅኡ ተለኩም ማለት ትማሕበረሰብ ድዩ ብዚኣ ጀምርዋ ዝብለኩም ወይስ . . .
When you craft the doorway, is it according to the customer’s choice
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ባዕልኩም ኢኩም ሪኢኩም ቦታ ልሙቺ ኢልኩም ስራህ ትጅምሩ በሪ ምውፃእ ትጅምሩ?
or by your choice?
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ባዕለይባ።
It is mine.
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ከመይ ክመርፅዎ ይክእሉ?
How do you choose it?
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ሙስቱ ናይ ቤተክርስትያን ልምብራቅ ዙ መንበሪ ዝስገዶ ሙካኑ ናዩ ግምት ወሲድካ ብኡ ይገብሮ።
To the east of the church, then you can estimate.
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ላብ ምብራቅ ቅድሚ ምብፃሕስ ብግዴታ ብምዕራብ ምቅራፅ ትጅምሩ እኒአኩም ማለት ድዩ?
To reach the east, is it a must to begin from the west?
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እወ።
Yes
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ልሃመይ ንምንታይ እማ ኣትዩ?
If so, why?
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ቱ ታዎትይ ትመንበርይ ንምብራቅ ስለ ዝኮን. . .
The ark of the covenant must be started from the eastern side,
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ብግዴታ ብታሕቲ ንጅምር እሞ. . .
we start with the bottom
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ዳሓር እናደፋእካ እናደፋእካ ኩሉ ብልሰራሕካ ዝናይ ኩሉ ቤተክርስትያን ብልወዳእካ ድምድም ብልበለ ሜስካለ ናይ መቅደስ ንባዕሉ ንምብራቅ ትገብሮ።
then, afterwards, we widen it.
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እ ንበይና ትፈልያ ሰለስተ ሜትሮ ትፈልያ።
I will carve the altar about three meters to the east.
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ኣብ ጊወርግስ ከዚ ብሰሜን እዮም ጀሚሮም?
You begin north at St. George
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ኣብ ኣባገሪማለ ብደቡብ. . .
and south at Enda Aba Gerima,
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ካመይ ማለት እዩ ንሱ ከዚ።
How is it?
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ሀዚ በደቡብማ ብካሊእ ቦታ ሲኢንናሉ መእተዊ. . .
Since we couldn’t find another exposure, we began from the south.
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ሃመይ ሲኢንኩምሉ ከቢዱ?
Is it difficult?
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ቦትኡ ንናይገደል ምስ ገደል ዝጠበቀ ኮይኑ።
Yes. Since it is joined to the cliff,
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ዛና ኣባገሪማ ።
Which one? Aba Gerima's?
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ኣባገሪማ።
Yes Aba Gerima
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ናዳ ጅወርግስለ ከምኡ ምስ እንባ ስለዝጠበቀ ።
We couldn’t get an entrance to Enda Giorgis(St. George) church.
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ብቱ ንሰሜን ጀሚርና እኒአና ላወይ ከይድና እኒአና ግን መቅደሱ ግን ንምብራቅ ኢና ክንገብሮ ገና።
But we will make the altar to the east.
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እህ. . .
okay.
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ስለዚ ትቦትኡ እዩ ማለት እዩ?
So is it the location which matters?
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ትቦትኡ እዩ ወ።
Yes, it is.
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መዐቀኒ ከዚ ብምንታይ ኢኩም ትጥቀሙ ማለት እዩ?
Most of the time, what measuring tools do you use?
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መውዛሕቲኡ ጊዜ?
Mostly?
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መውዛሕቲኡ ጊዜ ዶ?
Mostly
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ብሚትሮ።
A meter.
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ብሚትሮ ኢኩም ትዕቅኑ?
You measure using meters?
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ህእ።
Yes
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ምልማፅ ስራሕ እኒኦ ስራሕ እኒኦወዶ እቲይ ምሰራራሕካስ?
In marking,
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ምልማፅ ማለተይ ልሙፅ ትገብሮ እዙ ሰብ እሱ ልሰርሖ ኩሉ ማንኛው ሰብ ክሰርሖ ዝክእል ድዩስ ባዓል ልምዲ ጥራሕ እዩ ክሰርሖ ዝክእል?
can marking or flattening the rocks be done by you only or by the laborers?
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ኣፍቱ ምቅርራፅ ባዕለይ ይቀራርፆ።
I carve the shapes by myself
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ንቱ ምልማፅ ግን ብከምዚኣ ስርሓያ ኢልካ ነዙ ልመልመልካዮ መንእሰይ. . .
but marking or flattening the rocks could be done by the laborers. I show them how to do it and they can do it.
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ንኡ ትህዎሞ ንሱለ ይሕግዘካ።
What I do is monitor them to see whether they are doing it accordingly or not.
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እሞ ከዚ ዞምና ዓምዲ ለለዉ ወይለ ቀስተደመና ለለዉ. . .
What about the rainbow [arches] on the pillars?
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እ እሱከ ባዕሎም ድዮም ክሰርሕዎ ዝክእሉ ወይስ ኪሊእ ሰብ ክሰርሖ ይክእል እዩ።
Did you make them yourself?
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ባዕለይ እየ ልሰርሖ።
Yes I carve them myself
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ባዕለይ ሰሪሐ የሪኦሞ ካብዚኣ ክሻብ ክንድዚኣ ሚትሮ ዶ ትኮን ትብሎዶ።
then I show them from where and to where they should carve.
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ካብድሕሪኡ ካብዚኣ ከይትሓልፍ ዶይብሎ ፀኒሑ ንሱ ኣብኣ ይፈርሐንዩ ባዕለይ እየ ዝመዳምደን።
I told them also where they should stop.
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ክፍታ ካሊእ ምድፋእ ካሊእ ሰብ እዩ ዝሕግዘና።
The labors help me in widening
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ምብራቅ ከዚ ካመይ ይፈልጥዎ ማለት እዩ ምውራቅ ምኻኑ ብ ምውራቅስ ብምንታይ ምኻኑ ካመይ ገይሮም ይፈልጡ?
How do you know where the east lies?
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ምውራቅማ ዞም ኣቅሽቲ ባርኽ ምውራቅ ኢሎም ስለ ብመስቀሎም ትተባረክዎ።
Since priests always face their crosses to the east during prayer,
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ኩሉ ግዘ ቤተክስያን ስለ ነፃልት ንኡ ንረ ናረኣና ንቱስራሕለ ቡኡ ንዕወተሉ።
we know it.
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እህ ሃመይ ዞም ኣቅሽቲ ታርኩ ተለዉ ማለትዩ ?
What do you mean when the priests pray?
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መጀመርያ ነገር ከምዚኣ ጌሮም መስቀልማ ባርክ ምውራቅ ይውሉ።
The priests show the east by their crosses,
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ደሓር ቡኡ ስለቡኡ ልባርኩ ንሳቶም ናይቶም ንሕና ተምሃርና ቡኡ።
so based on it we keep on working.
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እምበይ ፀሓይ ስለልዎፅት ብምውራቅ ገለ ኣይኮነይ ከምኡ ልውሉ ማለትዩ?
But don’t you know the sun rises in the east?
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ቶም ኣቅሽቲ ላው ምውራቅ ስል ልቅድሱ?
I don’t know. What I know is the place where the priests direct is east.
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እህ.
Okey.
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ከዚ ቲ ዓቀኑ ቁመቱ እ ወይ ልቱ ዓምዲ ኣመራርፃ ሃመይ ይመርፅዎ ማለትዩ ከዚ?
How do you choose the pillars and their length?
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ዓምዲ ኣመራርፃማ ናይ ግፍሓት ነገር ተልዩካ. . .
You can chose with respect to the area
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ባዕልካ ክንዱዚ ሜትሮ ብልከድካየን ክልተ ሜትሮ ውይን ሜትሮይ ፈረቃይ ብልከድካ . . .
After digging for almost two or one-and-a-half meters,
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ታ ዓምዲ ካምትቀሪ ትገብራ. . .
we leave the pillar
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ታ ዓምዲ ካምትቀሪ ትገብራ።
then we can carve it easily.
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ክልተ ሜትሮ ምስከድካ ማለት እዩ?
After you go 2 meters?
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ካብድሕሪኡ ግን ነቲ ዓምዲ ኩሉ ናረኣካ ስለልከድ ሙሉእ ናመረሐካ ናባዕልካ ናስተዋዓልካሉ ትከድ።
Yes and after that it will lead you.
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እህ
Okay
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ክንደይ ዓምዲ ኢኩም መውዛሕቲኡ ጊዜ እ እቅድ ተውፅእሉ ክንደይ ክሰርሕ እየ ኢልኩም?
How many pillars would you like to carve in most of your works?
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ንሱማ ከም ቦትኡ ልገፊሕ እንተኮይኑ ክሳብ ላብ ዓሰርተ ትከድ ኢካ።
It depends. If the space is wide, we can make ten,
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እንድሕር ተቢሉ ናብ ሽዱሽተ ሸውዓተ ትገብረሉ ኢካ ምስቱ ቦትኡ ግፍሓቱ።
but if the space is small, we can make five, six or seven.
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ከዚሲ ዓምዲ እንድሕር ለይብሉ ዓምዲ እንድሕር ለይብሉ ንመልክዕ ድዩ ልቅመጥሎ?
Does the pillar serve as decorat